Tag: pantheon nerf (Page 1 of 2)

Have the Pantheon changes panned out?

After the global ult nerf patch, Morello put out a call for Pantheon suggestions, hoping to bring him back up to some sort of viability. With the Skarner patch, he got some significant buffs – lower cooldowns on his stun and Heartseeker, a much faster ult, an execute on his Spear Shot – to the point that I’ve been seeing him much more often. I haven’t had a lot of time to spend on him, but when has that ever stopped me from sharing my impressions?

I’ll start by saying that the changes are mostly a good thing. That short-cd stun can be brutal in combination with teammate CC, making Pantheon a very difficult champion to escape. The ranged execute is also a nice buff. I didn’t have much trouble finishing off a target with the old Pantheon but since the change I can’t say that I’ve narrowly missed a kill. I also played against a Pantheon today who was last-hitting teammates I thought for sure I had saved with a well-placed Dragon’s Rage.

It’s Heartseeker Strike that still bugs me. It’s in a much better place now that it can be used more often, but the animation feels a little too long. There also remains the simple fact that it’s a self-stun, which really hurts. He can cast more often, but that also means he’s locking himself up more often. I would really like to see Riot either dramatically shorten the animation time and reconsider the damage or just find a new ability to add in this one’s place.

So, serious Pantheon players, what do you think? Are his new cooldowns helping out? Does he feel more viable? Still just a pubstomp toon? Drop your impressions in the comments.

This week’s patch to bring global changes

pantheon_splash_1

The Monkey King isn’t the only thing coming with this week’s patch (assuming it happens on schedule). As Morello has it, the changes to global ults will be coming with this patch as well, and the changes are making him think about Pantheon.

In case you’ve forgotten, the global ults in the game are getting nerfed to function a bit more like Nocturne’s Paranoia. They will still allow the champion to cross large distances, but it will no longer allow for a truly global ultimate. The change affects Twisted Fate, Shen, and Pantheon at the very least (EDIT: Looks like Shen might not be getting the nerf – hard to say based on patch preview). I couldn’t find any information about Gangplank’s ult. Players will now be able to see the range of the ultimate on the minimap in order to gauge distance.

The impending change prompted Morello to ask for community opinion on Pantheon, hoping players will play with the change and consider some other ways to make Pantheon fun again. I personally hope it means a rework to Heartseeker Strike. I wrote some time ago that the skill doesn’t really have a functional balance point. The skill is either too good because it can be used with a targeted stun, or it’s too weak because the damage isn’t worth a self-stun in order to land it.

I would like to see them give Pantheon something interesting. I think he has one of the best looking skins and for the most part his skills fit really well with the spear-wielding classical soldier myth.

Patch Day 1/18: So, about that Eve remake…

Outback Renekton.

It’s patch day once again folks, and though the changes have been less and less radical over the past few patches, there is still a decent bit to talk about today. The big point of contention will doubtlessly be Evelynn. She’s had a remake rumored for months, but today she’s getting a heavy swat from the nerf bat. Hopefully that means something about her development in the near future.

Caitlyn’s getting a buff, though I still think her skillset is to confused to be taken too seriously. Piltover Peacemaker is getting a little nerf at low levels and a buff at higher levels, both to base damage and damage scaling. That should make one of her skills worth casting one she has Infinity Edge, but still in limited situations. Her ultimate has also received a base damage increase at ranks two and three, is now treated like a spell (still physical damage, I’m guessing, but blocked by Banshee’s Veil, unable to be dodged, and no longer mitigated by Pantheon’s Aegis Protection). It also loses the ability to apply on-hit effects.

Evelynn. Poor, poor Evelynn. I’ve never been much of an Eve supporter – the stealth mechanic in this game just sucks, and giving a stealther a long, targeted stun that’s usable from stealth and that ridiculous heal on her ult is admittedly too much. Still, this nerf should pretty much ruin Eve back to her pre-jungle days. Her base mana, base armor, and base damage all took a serious hit that, when coupled with the 33 percent damage nerf to the first two ranks of Hate Spike will effectively ruin her jungling. Shadow Walk also got a 10 second duration nerf at all ranks, which I think is a good thing. It’s definitely too easy to stand around setting up ganks, and the old duration allowed her to take one rank and forget the skill, ranking her damage instead. Overall, though, this is one of the biggest across-the-board nerfs I’ve seen. The only thing I can think is that the remake is nearly done, but we’ve been waiting an awfully long time – might be more waiting ahead.

Heimerdinger’s getting a little love this patch. His turrets now work on an ammo system similar to Teemo mushrooms, which I think will be good. Heimer’s problem has always been the time to set up a lane, it just wasn’t as big a deal when he had lots of turrets that did lots of damage. Since the turret nerfs, it’s been even harder to justify playing him. The turret AI has also caught some improvements so that it will be more effective against champions attacking Heimer. Upgrade now increases the number of missiles he fires to five and increases the travel speed of his grenade. I’m not sure if the latter is a good thing or not. People have suggested that as a base buff for him, but to only have it some of the time could actually make it tough to land. Still, this stuff should help him out overall.

Kennen’s Mark of the Storm is getting a long overdue duration nerf, down from 12 seconds to 8. I don’t really know why this took so long. Kennen has always had strong lane harass, due in large part to the length a mark will stay on a target. His primary form of using the mark, Electrical Surge, also got a minimal range nerf. He’s still going to be one of the best lane partners in the game, but it’s something.

Pantheon’s Aegis of Zeonia (his stun) got a serious duration nerf, down to 0.7/0.9/1.1/1.3/1.5 from 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2. While I like the fact that this makes Heartseeker damage at least partially avoidable, it’s not the fix Pantheon needs. The problem is Heartseeker itself. Granted, the stun is what made Heartseeker good, but like most melee, Pantheon needs a way to stick to his target. If the target has merc Treads, he’s only getting a .9 second stun. That’s not gonna cut it. Heartseeker needs to be remade. It’s a cool idea, but it doesn’t work in a practical setting. It’s either too much damage or too little. There is no reasonable median.

Rammus got a taunt nerf. Ok.

Twitch got a range buff and a similar stealth duration nerf to Evelynn. It seems like Riot is taking steps to prepare people for a change to the stealth system, which I’m ready for. As it stands, the nerf will help, but a couple ranks in and players won’t notice a difference. Will we see the maximum duration for stealthing characters reduced to 10 seconds with successive ranks adding different functionality to the spells?

Zilean’s ult got a duration nerf, down from 13 seconds to 10. Personally, I don’t think this is a big nerf. The best Zileans I see use their ult carefully, landing it just before a target dies so that it doesn’t get wasted. Hopefully this will train up and coming Zilean players to do the same.

That’s it for the major changes. I do want to mention a small Nasus buff – Siphon Strike bonus damage went up from 2 damage per kill to to 3. It’s interesting that this is the only buff he gets when his brother releases, but it is a pretty sweet buff. That’s a LOT of damage if he can get farmed. He still suffers from his other problems, but this will give him a little more burst.

As for general changes, there aren’t many. Critical strikes and dodge chances have been normalized to prevent lucky/unlucky streaks. My guess is that it’s coded to calculate those chances in small groups of, say, seven attacks, so that you see a more consistent benefit from those stats. This should be a good thing.

Check back later today for my Renekton impressions – I’m sure I’m going to love him. Mobile melee champions are always a good time.

Heartseeker Strike may not have a balance point

Bondage Pantheon

One of the most fervently discussed issues for Pantheon players is the damage of Heartseeker Strike. When he launched it seemed to deal very respectable damage, then there was the period in which it could hit people for three quarters of their health at any point in the game. That was soon nerfed, to the point that most players didn’t bother ranking the skill past rank one, and then only to get the critical strike bonus. Well, it has been buffed again, this time at the cost of some Spear Shot base damage.

While it is nice for Pantheon to have the skill back to a level of usefulness, it’s also back to being extremely unfun to play against. The problem, in my mind, is that he has a targeted stun, which allows him to always land Heartseeker. With the new damage buff, he hits incredibly hard. As Shaco, I was getting hit yesterday for 700+ at level 15. With Aegis and Spear Shot in one rotation, that’s more than 900 completely unavoidable damage that comes, as is usually my problem, at very low skill cost. In my current game, I’m level 11 with nothing more than a BF Sword and Heartseeker hits for 700 damage on heroes. His ultimate does the same damage at that level and is infinitely more difficult to land.

I think Heartseeker is hard to balance for a couple reasons. One is that it basically stuns Pantheon, and during that time he can’t deal any auto attacks, so it has to feel ‘worth it’ to use the skill. Second, there’s the fact that it deals double damage to champions. I’m not sure why that has to be a part of the skill. Is Riot worried he’ll farm to well? That wouldn’t be as big an issue if Heartseeker didn’t hit so damn hard. Reduce the damage and remove the double damage component. Then he gets the gear to make the skill hit hard. The real problem to me, though, is that he can use it in conjunction with his stun. That’s why I don’t think there’s a point that it will feel okay to play against.

I think the guaranteed crit is kind of a cool mechanic, though, so I’d propose remaking the skill into more of a skill shot. What if Pantheon had a hook that was shorter range than Blitzcrank’s? The text might read as follows:

Pantheon attempts to impale an opponent on the tip of his spear, dealing attack damage and pulling the target back to his location. Pantheon’s next attack is guaranteed to be a critical strike and cannot be dodged.

I think you could even leave the current passive component in tact. It would definitely add some more flavor to his character and reduce the feeling that his damage is completely unavoidable. It would also give him some more tools to maximize his auto attacks, rather than encouraging a damage-only build.

LoL: Where do you stand on Pantheon?

Pantheon concept art.There’s a nice discussion happening on the forums about Pantheon’s position in the game. I’ve included my response below, but be sure to check out the entire post. After a few weeks, what do you think? Does he need some buffs? Some nerfs? Is melee DPS just not fun enough?

I think he’s in a great spot – definitely some of the highest utility of any melee DPS champ while churning out solid damage. Unfortunately, a lot of people try to build attack speed and don’t scale like they think they should. An early bloodthirster is easily the best thing you can do for yourself. The damage puts Heartseeker through the roof, making attack speed practically unnecessary (everything dies in 3 hits). Once you have that you can pick up some survivability and a little attack speed for later in the game.

I will say, I don’t care for his passive. Yes, it’s a nice laning tool and the only passive counter to Deceive and Parrrley (it’s also saved me from a few Blitz crits), but I feel like I get very little use out of it once you get past level 13 or so. From there on that shield just doesn’t save me often enough to care about it. I have not played many high survivability builds with him, so it’s hard for me to say if it’s better when you have some more health. I’ll give it some serious testing and post some thoughts if I remember.

He definitely struggles late game as most melee DPS does. Again, I have to test some survivability builds to see what I can make work.

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